Star Wars - The Old Republic

I'm gonna go play rollercoaster tycoon after all this talk of theme parks!

Jaden wrote:

[LG]Zlog wrote:

Also, RE: Textures...

The current low-res textures allow one to see how basic all the models and areas are. Adding higher-res textures will help hide that, but it's still going to be pasted on semi-uninteresting models and areas.

All the bump mapping in the world isn't going to help, just ask Everquest 2. At launch it had some of the most boring zones I've ever seen in any game ever. I had a system that could run it at near-max settings (OMG-worthy back then) and despite how detailed the textures were, they were still wrapped on boring models.

Expansions and add-ons have corrected the issues in newer areas, but if you go to EQ2 Vanilla zones, you know it almost instantly.

I actually think the environments are varied and great looking. And the character models look fine.

Anyone who's played WoW or MMOs in general knows that graphics aren't what make an MMO great, and I have a blast playing SWTOR.

You comparing SWTOR to EQII makes me question your judgement.

I've played WoW... to much of it. The reason WoW can somewhat get away with it's graphics is the designers of the worlds and areas are great - they make the zones really interesting.

I just haven't seen any in game captures of SWTOR that make the game look interesting at all. Nothing that makes me want to go explore the world.

The way you defend this game makes you sound like a Star Wars junkie, no offense. I'm one too. But I'm not the type that's going to get suckered into a YAWC. (Yet Another WoW Clone).

In fact, the whole MMO genre has been a Clone War lately............ badum dis.

EDIT: Please tell me that one can enable complex shadows in this game, and that for some reason everyone seems to turn them off...

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I am as big a Star Wars fan boi as anyone . . .as Zlog pointed out one of the best things about SWG was the ability to create your own guild city . . .and open stores and such. it just added so much to the game

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There was an option to enable higher quality shadows. it killed my framerate @ 2560x1600, from round 100fps to 20fps, so I did not run it. I cannot recall what it looked like becuase i did not have it on very long.

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[LG]Zlog wrote:

The way you defend this game makes you sound like a Star Wars junkie, no offense. I'm one too. But I'm not the type that's going to get suckered into a YAWC. (Yet Another WoW Clone)....

Ironically I'm not that much into Star Wars. I just really loved KOTOR 1 and 2 and Bioware RPGs in general. I'm also sick of fantasy style MMOs, and have been waiting for a good sci-fi MMO forever.

I will say it again, SWTOR is no more a WoW clone than WoW was a clone of Everquest or any other MMO. Regardless, I had a lot of fun playing it, and in the end, isn't that what really matters? Wink

fun +1

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Quote:

I am as big a Star Wars fan boi as anyone . . .as Zlog pointed out one of the best things about SWG was the ability to create your own guild city . . .and open stores and such. it just added so much to the game

No way DarthBeavis! You mean like a sandbox game design that actually allows player freedom? That's weird. I don't like this because I like games that hold my hand and do everything for me including; tab targeting, radar, safe zones, battlegrounds, epic gear > skill, levels, classes, instances, ad nauseum. I'm not going to list out every single design flaw I dislike in a WoW based clone because it would take all night.

Quote:

You keep talking about the design being "wrong" with no specifics and no example of a good design. Labeling WoW, SWTOR, or any other MMO a "theme park" is an arguement people use who have no idea what they are talking about and heard someone use the term.

Read the above, plus I do have an idea what I'm talking about because unlike a lot of people I actually have played MMO's since 1996 such as Ultima Online, DAOC, SB, AC, and just about every other MMO to date for that matter. For those of you that don't know a "Theme Park" MMO is an MMO where the majority of the content is already created inside of the game for you to follow along and complete in a specific way and is pre-planned out. In other words, everything is given to you and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator along a linear path. This is why they call it a "theme park" because you are just "along for the ride". Hence exactly why you have like 9 Tiers of "EPIC GEAR OMG" in WoW and they keep hamster wheeling you into grinding for it over and over again until they release the next tier and/or expansion pack.

The complete opposite of this, and also the game design that I prefer, is a sandbox MMO design where the player gets complete freedom to do whatever they want, whenever they want, and build the world as they see fit. In other words, you get to play with the "sand" in the sand box and help shape the game world and actually have an impact. The developer creates tools and gives complete player freedom to do whatever you can think of. This is EXACTLY what Darthbeavis is saying about designing your own city and creating your own content. Lets take UO as an example briefly to demonstrate a point. Lets say you logged into Ultima Online (A sandbox MMO) went fishing and caught a fish. You could double click your dagger and cut up the fish, you could then chop a tree nearby with your hatchet and create kindling, you could light that kindling on fire, then you could cook the fish, you could eat or sell the fish on your player created house and personal vendor... the list goes on and you can do just about anything you can think of. There's no quest, if you want to go do something you go do it and suffer the consequences or rewards. Theme Park MMO's have very little risk and therefore little reward and personally after playing sandbox MMO's... very little fun or excitement.

Quote:

I will say it again, SWTOR is no more a WoW clone than WoW was a clone of Everquest or any other MMO. Regardless, I had a lot of fun playing it, and in the end, isn't that what really matters?

Fun is most important but you are missing a very big point. The reason we are now stuck with a clone war of stupid theme park MMO's over and over again is because people like you don't even understand what you are missing to begin with. You are essentially ruining our fun because you are forcing the hand of the game developer to keep create this utter garbage. It's probably because you never played anything else to compare it to or because you are a carebear and you actually do want to grind for epics or both. You'll play any stupid piece of crap just because it's "Star Wars" or Bioware while being completely blinded by your fanboi attitude and unable to look objectively at the game. Furthermore, It's also a complete logical fallacy to say that "SWTOR is no more a WoW clone than WoW was a clone of Everquest or any other MMO". There's a giant difference between modifying general ideas of all of the games that came before WoW (UO, DAOC, Everquest, and many others) and actually STEALING the same exact work. It's the difference between copying a web site design and actually copying a web site itself. For example, as soon as I got into the game I noticed Bind on Pickup/ Bind on Equip items, Exactly the same purple XP Font, talent trees, and about 20 other things by the time I had played for an hour that are straight rip offs from WoW. There is VERY few things (if any) that SWTOR has in it that WoW does not. It's a copy of WoW- Star Wars edition. I'm sorry if you don't see it but hopefully one day you will figure it out.

Furb wrote:

Quote:

I am as big a Star Wars fan boi as anyone . . .as Zlog pointed out one of the best things about SWG was the ability to create your own guild city . . .and open stores and such. it just added so much to the game

No way DarthBeavis! You mean like a sandbox game design that actually allows player freedom? That's weird. I don't like this because I like games that hold my hand and do everything for me including; tab targeting, radar, safe zones, battlegrounds, epic gear > skill, levels, classes, instances, ad nauseum. I'm not going to list out every single design flaw I dislike in a WoW based clone because it would take all night.

Quote:

You keep talking about the design being "wrong" with no specifics and no example of a good design. Labeling WoW, SWTOR, or any other MMO a "theme park" is an arguement people use who have no idea what they are talking about and heard someone use the term.

Read the above, plus I do have an idea what I'm talking about because unlike a lot of people I actually have played MMO's since 1996 such as Ultima Online, DAOC, SB, AC, and just about every other MMO to date for that matter. For those of you that don't know a "Theme Park" MMO is an MMO where the majority of the content is already created inside of the game for you to follow along and complete in a specific way and is pre-planned out. In other words, everything is given to you and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator along a linear path. This is why they call it a "theme park" because you are just "along for the ride". Hence exactly why you have like 9 Tiers of "EPIC GEAR OMG" in WoW and they keep hamster wheeling you into grinding for it over and over again until they release the next tier and/or expansion pack.

The complete opposite of this, and also the game design that I prefer, is a sandbox MMO design where the player gets complete freedom to do whatever they want, whenever they want, and build the world as they see fit. In other words, you get to play with the "sand" in the sand box and help shape the game world and actually have an impact. The developer creates tools and gives complete player freedom to do whatever you can think of. This is EXACTLY what Darthbeavis is saying about designing your own city and creating your own content. Lets take UO as an example briefly to demonstrate a point. Lets say you logged into Ultima Online (A sandbox MMO) went fishing and caught a fish. You could double click your dagger and cut up the fish, you could then chop a tree nearby with your hatchet and create kindling, you could light that kindling on fire, then you could cook the fish, you could eat or sell the fish on your player created house and personal vendor... the list goes on and you can do just about anything you can think of. There's no quest, if you want to go do something you go do it and suffer the consequences or rewards. Theme Park MMO's have very little risk and therefore little reward and personally after playing sandbox MMO's... very little fun or excitement.

Quote:

I will say it again, SWTOR is no more a WoW clone than WoW was a clone of Everquest or any other MMO. Regardless, I had a lot of fun playing it, and in the end, isn't that what really matters?

Fun is most important but you are missing a very big point. The reason we are now stuck with a clone war of stupid theme park MMO's over and over again is because people like you don't even understand what you are missing to begin with. You are essentially ruining our fun because you are forcing the hand of the game developer to keep create this utter garbage. It's probably because you never played anything else to compare it to or because you are a carebear and you actually do want to grind for epics or both. You'll play any stupid piece of crap just because it's "Star Wars" or Bioware while being completely blinded by your fanboi attitude and unable to look objectively at the game. Furthermore, It's also a complete logical fallacy to say that "SWTOR is no more a WoW clone than WoW was a clone of Everquest or any other MMO". There's a giant difference between modifying general ideas of all of the games that came before WoW (UO, DAOC, Everquest, and many others) and actually STEALING the same exact work. It's the difference between copying a web site design and actually copying a web site itself. For example, as soon as I got into the game I noticed Bind on Pickup/ Bind on Equip items, Exactly the same purple XP Font, talent trees, and about 20 other things by the time I had played for an hour that are straight rip offs from WoW. There is VERY few things (if any) that SWTOR has in it that WoW does not. It's a copy of WoW- Star Wars edition. I'm sorry if you don't see it but hopefully one day you will figure it out.

LOL - I was an avid Ultima fan from the first one to Ultima Underworld 2 . . .those were awesome . . .

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Furb wrote:

...
...people like you don't even understand what you are missing to begin with. You are essentially ruining our fun because you are forcing the hand of the game developer to keep create this utter garbage. It's probably because you never played anything else to compare it to or because you are a carebear and you actually do want to grind for epics or both. You'll play any stupid piece of crap just because it's "Star Wars" or Bioware while being completely blinded by your fanboi attitude and unable to look objectively at the game. ..... I'm sorry if you don't see it but hopefully one day you will figure it out.

No need to resort to childish insults while at the same time accusing me of being ignorant in my knowledge of MMOs. Sit down son! You are not special because you have been playing MMO's since 1996. Get in line!

Your arrogance and ignorance are becoming quite obvious. Its -MY- fault for ruining your idea of what MMOs should be? Perhaps its because the majority of people prefer games that are different than what you wish they were. Maybe you are mad because you are in the minority?

If I accused YOU and people like you of "ruining" MMOs because I don't prefer sandbox MMOs because most of them are horrible, would it sound any less ridiculous?

Quote:

No need to resort to childish insults while at the same time accusing me of being ignorant in my knowledge of MMOs. Sit down son! You are not special because you have been playing MMO's since 1996. Get in line!

You're such an e-thug!! Oh noes!

Quote:

Your arrogance and ignorance are becoming quite obvious. Its -MY- fault for ruining your idea of what MMOs should be? Perhaps its because the majority of people prefer games that are different than what you wish they were. Maybe you are mad because you are in the minority?

If I accused YOU and people like you of "ruining" MMOs because I don't prefer sandbox MMOs because most of them are horrible, would it sound any less ridiculous?

Calm down there fanboi... just breathe a bit. I never said that I wanted all Theme Park MMO's go away, I simply aim at having a well funded sandbox game to play for the rest of us as an alternative. Unfortunately people like you DO ruin that because we have this lovely thing called money and since most of the people have only played WoW or WoW clones and have a limited knowledge of MMO's as a whole it stands to reason that game companies will therefore produce WoW clones. That's why playing since 1996 IS important because I actually have SANDBOX MMO experience unlike the 90% of the WoW kiddies these days. So no you can't draw a direct comparison because I don't even care if WoW clones still exist. My entire point is that the problem is a fundamental lack of knowledge and most MMO gamers have no comparisons to draw new conclusions from.

Anyways nice talking to you have fun playing your WoW add on with the rest of the sheep.

Furb wrote:

Anyways nice talking to you have fun playing your WoW add on with the rest of the sheep.

Thanks, I will.

Have fun yelling at the kids to get off your lawn.

Furb, IMO you are incorrect in every aspect. TL:DR, but I know what your saying and I've heard it again and again. No it's not WoW, doesn't even look the same. One is retarded Fantasy with crap story, and one is Sci-fi, with a.. wait hold on... AN INTERESTING STORY! Who would have thought, a game with a story...

Been playing MMO since UO in 1999. Nothing has even come close to the epicness of SWTOR. Name any mmo, I have played it.

Go play Second Life instead of trying to force your OPINION on us.

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This thread needs a lock imo.

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Quote:

Furb, IMO you are incorrect in every aspect. TL:DR, but I know what your saying and I've heard it again and again. No it's not WoW, doesn't even look the same. One is retarded Fantasy with crap story, and one is Sci-fi, with a.. wait hold on... AN INTERESTING STORY! Who would have thought, a game with a story...

Been playing MMO since UO in 1999. Nothing has even come close to the epicness of SWTOR. Name any mmo, I have played it.

Go play Second Life instead of trying to force your OPINION on us.

Translation: I didn't read anything you actually wrote and I'm just another fanboy coming to the defense of my WoW clone.

EQWoody is right, this thread should be locked because you fanboys can't handle my criticism of your carbon copy WoW clone which is absolutely halarious.

Nah it's okay Furb, I know you just can't handle SWTOR. Don't worry, it'll be alright.

After 6 years of WoW, I can safely say this is no Clone. You LOSE , Good day sir.

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Furb wrote:

Quote:

Furb, IMO you are incorrect in every aspect. TL:DR, but I know what your saying and I've heard it again and again. No it's not WoW, doesn't even look the same. One is retarded Fantasy with crap story, and one is Sci-fi, with a.. wait hold on... AN INTERESTING STORY! Who would have thought, a game with a story...

Been playing MMO since UO in 1999. Nothing has even come close to the epicness of SWTOR. Name any mmo, I have played it.

Go play Second Life instead of trying to force your OPINION on us.

Translation: I didn't read anything you actually wrote and I'm just another fanboy coming to the defense of my WoW clone.

EQWoody is right, this thread should be locked because you fanboys can't handle my criticism of your carbon copy WoW clone which is absolutely halarious.

more like carbonite copy you nerf herder.

While I'm getting the sense that Furb is quite possibley a nerdrager and/or a troll, I am curious to know which part of the SWTOR story is interesting to you guys... because it honestly struck me as (I'm going to say it) more stale than Episode 1.

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screw WOW and SWG and this new MMO . . .real men play Second Life . . .

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Remember there are only 7 basic plots to use for any story.

1 - [wo]man vs. nature
2 - [wo]man vs. man
3 - [wo]man vs. the environment
4 - [wo]man vs. machines/technology
5 - [wo]man vs. the supernatural
6 - [wo]man vs. self
7 - [wo]man vs. god/religion

So basically all stories are just variations on a theme.

Yes the story is quite close to other stories. Bad guy wants to destroy the Republic, others want you to help stop him. So on, and so forth. I felt that it is presented in an engaging manner, the various quests and side quests brought me into the world.

As far as sandbox gaming, the ultimate sandbox MMO Eve-online, I really enjoy it. And eve-online even has pretty damn good story driven questing now as well. But I don't think the EVE stories are as engaging as those I took part in SWTOR.

Furb obviously doesn't like SWTOR, let's just ignore him. Obviously his opinion doesn't matter to those of us who said we are going to play it.

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What are you going to do when the story is over? Think critically on this part...