Tournament 1: Counter Strike: GO 5v5

Last edited by Vector on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total

This post serves to announce that we will be having a CS:GO tournament at PDXLAN 21.

We don't typically repeat tournaments, so be sure to get in on this one - it may not be back.

There will be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place prizes - breaking tradition of 3rd place going to a random team. We are only doing this for this tournament.

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manbeast wrote:

stop taking pictures of me while I'm reading tourny announcements. It's creepy.

Can't wait, should be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ~~rage inducing~~ fun.

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Gamemode/map?

marxistforlife wrote:

Gamemode/map?

I would guess that this info probably won't be released until around the month of the LAN.

Anyway, game mode WILL BE defuse. At least, I would hope so.

Maps probably won't be released until tourney day but, there aren't too many competitive maps so learn em all!

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I'd imagine it's going to use the standard competitive config, which is built into the game now. I'd expect 15 rounds per side, 1:45 start times, 800 start money.

Could obviously be different, but now that cs has that config built in, I would bet that will be used.

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If you guys know anyone looking for 1 starter for their team, I live in Portland and I am extremely experienced. I play competitively on ESEA and my team now is undefeated (6-0). I average 114 adr and 1.1 fpr and would consider myself at a professional level, and have played on a professional level. I'm also really chill so let me know:) Email: jedimynd@gmail.com P.S. I can strat call as well. ESEA LINK: http://play.esea.net/users/489300

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Indeed this is quite the treat from PDXLan. There has been very few CS series tournaments over the years, meaning most definitely head to this.

Just want to touch on a few things, but I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression on where I'm coming from on a few of these suggestions.

-Format: 5v5, MR30 (First to 16 wins), 800 startmoney, 0:15 freezetime, 1:45 roundtime
I wanted to clarify that there are more than one mode classified as "competitive", which is why I wanted to make sure it's recognized the standard is still the same old one it has been since I was a young pup.

-Game Mode: Defusal (De_maps, De_maps_se, de_maps_ve). Given this is a long ways out, and there is bound to be an additional 5-10 maps released/tested prior to the LAN. I figure everyone should know that while the default maps may be all fine and good to most people, I strongly recommend using the newer releases (_se or _ve) maps over the traditional Valve created originals they made for CS:GO initially. The balances/changes made to the maps make the maps less one-sided (and I sincerely mean that, as I thoroughly abused my knowledge of the original maps at PAX this last weekend).

I'm sure you'll have whoever is running the tournament do their research and run it as best they see fit, but if you ever need some ideas, feel free to message myself or simply do a bit of googling/searching for current leagues (Someone already cited it: http://play.esea.net/).

The game is due to be getting quite a lot of fixes done over the next 3-4 months. I was just at Valve yesterday and gave them a rather long laundry list of items to resolve.

Cheers,
Pinnochio

Pinnochio wrote:

Indeed this is quite the treat from PDXLan. There has been very few CS series tournaments over the years, meaning most definitely head to this.

Just want to touch on a few things, but I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression on where I'm coming from on a few of these suggestions.

-Format: 5v5, MR30 (First to 16 wins), 800 startmoney, 0:15 freezetime, 1:45 roundtime
I wanted to clarify that there are more than one mode classified as "competitive", which is why I wanted to make sure it's recognized the standard is still the same old one it has been since I was a young pup.

-Game Mode: Defusal (De_maps, De_maps_se, de_maps_ve). Given this is a long ways out, and there is bound to be an additional 5-10 maps released/tested prior to the LAN. I figure everyone should know that while the default maps may be all fine and good to most people, I strongly recommend using the newer releases (_se or _ve) maps over the traditional Valve created originals they made for CS:GO initially. The balances/changes made to the maps make the maps less one-sided (and I sincerely mean that, as I thoroughly abused my knowledge of the original maps at PAX this last weekend).

I'm sure you'll have whoever is running the tournament do their research and run it as best they see fit, but if you ever need some ideas, feel free to message myself or simply do a bit of googling/searching for current leagues (Someone already cited it: http://play.esea.net/).

The game is due to be getting quite a lot of fixes done over the next 3-4 months. I was just at Valve yesterday and gave them a rather long laundry list of items to resolve.

Cheers,
Pinnochio

+1 to everything here, especially concerning the maps. The se and ve versions are much better.

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If this tournament happens then you will most likely see my team go. Very Happy

Kshack wrote:

If this tournament happens then you will most likely see my team go. Very Happy

Keegan,

The tournament is going to happen. PDXLan does not make official announcements and not follow through. The best thing you can do is sign-up/pre-register your 5 team mates asap, to help secure the 5 seats you'd like next to each other.

The longer you wait, the less likely you'll get 5 in a row.

I'm also going to note, just like in the past, it is frowned upon to wait to register, then throw fits when people can't get 5 seats in a row due to procrastinating their pre-reg. You're at the mercy of whoever paid for their seats originally.

1. Thank you guys for the kind words. Really appreciate that.

2. I am not opposed to electing a community attendee to help us with the rules. IMO Manbeast deserves this job as he has done these quite a bit. This is a tournament for the attendees - lets give them input?

Any objections?

Edit: And where are those signups? Let's get this rolling! I am hoping to do this tournament once a year - let's see how this one goes!

_________________

= V e c t o r =

| LAN Events run: 50+ 500 Person Events | LAN Events attended 100+ | Sanity remaining: 0 |

Gaming Rig: | Intel 3960X | Intel X79SI | SLI GTX680 | 32GB Crucial Smart Tracer | 256GB x2 512GB SSD Raid | 9TB Storage |

Vector wrote:

1. Thank you guys for the kind words. Really appreciate that.

2. I am not opposed to electing a community attendee to help us with the rules. IMO Manbeast deserves this job as he has done these quite a bit. This is a tournament for the attendees - lets give them input?

Any objections?

Edit: And where are those signups? Let's get this rolling! I am hoping to do this tournament once a year - let's see how this one goes!

I appreciate the recognition Smile

I think Pinocchio hit the nail on the head with his post, a standard 5v5 tourney with 800 startmoney, 15 second freezetime and mr30 is the way to go.

The only issue I can see coming up (and this depends on turnout) is overtime matches eating up a lot of time. I'm typically used to overtime consisting of 3 rounds per side until one team wins, which can take a long time. I think the longest match I was ever a part of had 9 overtimes. Thinking out loud, this tournament would likely start on Sunday, giving us limited time to finish (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be). A shorter, more concise overtime ruleset might be in order.

Anyone have any ideas for that?

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manbeast wrote:

I appreciate the recognition Smile

I think Pinocchio hit the nail on the head with his post, a standard 5v5 tourney with 800 startmoney, 15 second freezetime and mr30 is the way to go.

The only issue I can see coming up (and this depends on turnout) is overtime matches eating up a lot of time. I'm typically used to overtime consisting of 3 rounds per side until one team wins, which can take a long time. I think the longest match I was ever a part of had 9 overtimes. Thinking out loud, this tournament would likely start on Sunday, giving us limited time to finish (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be). A shorter, more concise overtime ruleset might be in order.

Anyone have any ideas for that?

PAX Rules:
Best of 16 instead of 30. So 8 rounds per side then swap. Downside of this is fewer AWP rounds, schucks.
Tiebreaker - Knife round.
I think a quick, fun tiebreaker fits into the PDXLAN spirit.

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iRetreat wrote:

manbeast wrote:

I appreciate the recognition Smile

I think Pinocchio hit the nail on the head with his post, a standard 5v5 tourney with 800 startmoney, 15 second freezetime and mr30 is the way to go.

The only issue I can see coming up (and this depends on turnout) is overtime matches eating up a lot of time. I'm typically used to overtime consisting of 3 rounds per side until one team wins, which can take a long time. I think the longest match I was ever a part of had 9 overtimes. Thinking out loud, this tournament would likely start on Sunday, giving us limited time to finish (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be). A shorter, more concise overtime ruleset might be in order.

Anyone have any ideas for that?

PAX Rules:
Best of 16 instead of 30. So 8 rounds per side then swap. Downside of this is fewer AWP rounds, schucks.
Tiebreaker - Knife round.
I think a quick, fun tiebreaker fits into the PDXLAN spirit.

While not a bad idea, 8 rounds a side would, among other things, hurt the flow of a match. MR30 can be accomplished in a day just fine, as long as a bunch of the matches aren't going into double or triple overtime.

I'd also imagine that if PAX did that setup, they were using more of a CGS ruleset, which would be different round times and start money. MR30 allows teams more time to adapt, emphasizes pistol play in the early rounds, and IMO lends itself much better to competitive play. You can't really do startmoney 800 with an 8 round half, as the team that won the opening pistol round would have a distinct advantage, and the other team would be very hard pressed to come back from that deficit.

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manbeast wrote:

iRetreat wrote:

manbeast wrote:

I appreciate the recognition Smile

I think Pinocchio hit the nail on the head with his post, a standard 5v5 tourney with 800 startmoney, 15 second freezetime and mr30 is the way to go.

The only issue I can see coming up (and this depends on turnout) is overtime matches eating up a lot of time. I'm typically used to overtime consisting of 3 rounds per side until one team wins, which can take a long time. I think the longest match I was ever a part of had 9 overtimes. Thinking out loud, this tournament would likely start on Sunday, giving us limited time to finish (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be). A shorter, more concise overtime ruleset might be in order.

Anyone have any ideas for that?

PAX Rules:
Best of 16 instead of 30. So 8 rounds per side then swap. Downside of this is fewer AWP rounds, schucks.
Tiebreaker - Knife round.
I think a quick, fun tiebreaker fits into the PDXLAN spirit.

While not a bad idea, 8 rounds a side would, among other things, hurt the flow of a match. MR30 can be accomplished in a day just fine, as long as a bunch of the matches aren't going into double or triple overtime.

I'd also imagine that if PAX did that setup, they were using more of a CGS ruleset, which would be different round times and start money. MR30 allows teams more time to adapt, emphasizes pistol play in the early rounds, and IMO lends itself much better to competitive play. You can't really do startmoney 800 with an 8 round half, as the team that won the opening pistol round would have a distinct advantage, and the other team would be very hard pressed to come back from that deficit.

Exactly.

And your observation for not having as many AWP rounds isn't exactly accurate either: The SMG designated weapons earn at the moment $900 per frag, meaning I could buy a P90 2nd round, and buy an AWP 3rd round without any troubles. The P90 is currently godlike, only costs $2350, earns $900/frag, and has virtually no recoil. The last thing you will want to deal with is people who keep/recycle P90's.

I'll put it out there again, out of 51 total rounds at PAX (5 matches), my last minute pug only lost 6 total rounds.

The OT round being a knife battle is creative, but definitely unconventional. While the current standards are the same as the previous games (3 overtime rounds per side/First to 4 rounds), the actual income per weapon has been making the game a serious shot in the dark as to what's strong and what's not.

manbeast wrote:

While not a bad idea, 8 rounds a side would, among other things, hurt the flow of a match. MR30 can be accomplished in a day just fine, as long as a bunch of the matches aren't going into double or triple overtime.

PAX had only 32 teams using 8 rounds per side and was at a faster pace than any tournament I've ever seen at PDXLAN, and it took from 3PM to 7PM. If you almost double the amount of rounds per side, give teams breaks between matches that are standard at PDXLAN, and then increase the number of teams to add another round you are looking at a 10 hour or longer tournament. That could be fit in one day, if no one was planning on playing in any other tournaments. At the last PDXLAN I believe tournaments were each given 6 hours or so, which would most definitely be impossible with 15 rounds a side.

Pinnochio wrote:

And your observation for not having as many AWP rounds isn't exactly accurate either: The SMG designated weapons earn at the moment $900 per frag, meaning I could buy a P90 2nd round, and buy an AWP 3rd round without any troubles.

Which could also be done with 15 rounds a side, giving you 13 rounds with the AWP as opposed to 5. Not seeing how my observation is incorrect... That's an increase of 63% of rounds with the AWP to 87%.

Pinnochio wrote:

I'll put it out there again, out of 51 total rounds at PAX (5 matches), my last minute pug only lost 6 total rounds.

Seems relevant...
Also, I was at that tournament, every team there was a pug team, and most of the people had never played CS:GO.

Pinnochio wrote:

The OT round being a knife battle is creative, but definitely unconventional.

Quick, creative, and unconventional. You have described a PDXLAN tournament.

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iRetreat wrote:

manbeast wrote:

While not a bad idea, 8 rounds a side would, among other things, hurt the flow of a match. MR30 can be accomplished in a day just fine, as long as a bunch of the matches aren't going into double or triple overtime.

PAX had only 32 teams using 8 rounds per side and was at a faster pace than any tournament I've ever seen at PDXLAN, and it took from 3PM to 7PM. If you almost double the amount of rounds per side, give teams breaks between matches that are standard at PDXLAN, and then increase the number of teams to add another round you are looking at a 10 hour or longer tournament. That could be fit in one day, if no one was planning on playing in any other tournaments. At the last PDXLAN I believe tournaments were each given 6 hours or so, which would most definitely be impossible with 15 rounds a side.

I've run MR30 tourneys with 16 teams in under 6 hours before. Definitely possible. Definitely outweighs the drawbacks of 8 rounds a side.

If we get 32 teams, Then that's different, but I don't see that happening.

This is the first official CS tournament since pdx8, and MR30 is reasonable in the given timeframe, so there's no reason to run MR16.

Edit: And really, 32 teams could be done quite close to that as well, if it's done single elimination.

32 - 16 - 8 - 4 - 2 = 5 rounds.

30 * 1:45 = 43.5 minutes (you'd have to put in a couple of minutes for loading into the server) - This also assumes every round has at least one match going the whole 30 rounds, otherwise this is less

43.5 * 5 = 217.5 minutes = 3.6 hours

So, with 32 teams, an hour lunch break, and single elimination, you could feasibly do a 32 team tournament in 5 1/2-6 hours. Less, if there are no server issues (afaik you can host cs:go on lan, so that should not be a huge issue). Probably enough time for a BO3 for the finals.

second edit: what's your issue with the awp, anyway? an awper is easily dealt with. Razz

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