TF2 5v5 Official Rules and Map Discussion Thread

PDXLAN 11 Team Fortress 2 Rules

Version 1

General Expectations

You will be expected to have a working knowledge of the game as well as your own copy. Any un-sportsmanship like conduct will result in an immediate disqualification. PDXLAN staff and tournament administrators may, at any time, and for any reason, change or revoke any of the rules for this tournament.
Between now and the event a member of your team should be checking the forums regularly for any updates for this tournament. Be on time! It can’t be said enough. Our first meeting will be on Friday of the event. Your whole team will be required to be there. If you’re team is not at the meeting you will not be allowed to play in the tournament. At 11:30pm Friday night the seeding and map list will posted.
You are expected to have a working knowledge of the game and be ready to play at 9:30 AM Sunday. Your team will need to designate a team captain who will be able to make decisisions for your team. Captains will be responsible for creating your team in ALP. After the first team meeting Friday night we will only need captains to come up for information if announced.

Game Play

Maps will be either ctf or push. If ctf it will be played first to 3 caps with sudden death incase nobody makes it to 3 in time. For push it’s the first team to cap all the way to the last point. The map list will be released on the forums and will be using some stock maps as well as some well tested maps. If you have any map suggestions please post them in the official TF2 thread.
The tournament will be a double elimination tournament so being on time will be very important.

And as always, the staff reserves the right to change these rules at any time <3

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Doc: That's one worried frog.
Count: That's ONE! One worried frog!
Robin: Well, he's not the only one.
Count: That's TWO! Two worried frogs! Ha ha ha ha!

THERE WILL BE CUSTOM MAPS!!!

they will be symmetrical so don't worry about stuff like hydro. Once we get a few custom maps figured out for the tournament we will post them up here and also on the pdxlan tf2 server so we can all test them out together.
If you have suggestions post em with a link to the download.

_________________
Doc: That's one worried frog.
Count: That's ONE! One worried frog!
Robin: Well, he's not the only one.
Count: That's TWO! Two worried frogs! Ha ha ha ha!

Last edited by firefly on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

my cs/tf2/dod/2142 clan runs a map called mach2 which is a very nice variant on the 2fort idea. you can check it out here

http://www.vilepickle.com/maps.php

he has mach2 out and is getting close to releasing mach3 from what i understand.

if you want to check out the map w/o having to get it up on the server you can connect to:
[-Q-] 24/7 Mach2 Server (32 Players) - 209.160.36.232

just throwing it out there. not saying the pdx server is bad but its already up and running.

Last edited by willyweed on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Are there going to be rounds for CP maps or do we just push the other team off the map in 30 seconds and call it game? especially with no class restriction. you are going to see scouts end the matches rather quickly... its not going to be fun.

Well and Granary can both be over in seconds. 1 team takes the middle and then its an uphill battle for the other team to recover. so like i said the match could be over before anyone has any fun.

I think rounds should be implemented on the push maps to make it fair and so the game lasts long enough for both teams to have an equal shot at recovering. longer games are more fun.

The CTF setup is good. Those matches should at least last 15-30min depending on what you set the timelimit to.

After playing in two TF2 tournaments I see round based granary as a HEADACHE. If you get two equally sucky or matched teams in there, it can go 20 minutes per map. Times that by 3 and you have 1 hour rounds. That's why symmetrical maps are key in TF2.

If a team does manage to push though that quick, they are obviously superior - they other team shouldn't have let them.

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Last edited by willyweed on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

I could see how 2 really sucky teams could take an hour, but 2 good teams will usually end it very, very quickly. and if you have a good team vs. a sucky team, its going to be over before it starts.
I dont know im just trying to make the tourney more fun for all skill levels. I know if i was playing on a sucky team i would hate to lose like that so fast.

I would suggest not using well or granary for the sake of fun.

for the sake of balance i think dustbowl even though its a common map and played everywhere it also has a decent balance to it. but hey thats just me Smile

Last edited by willyweed on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Granary is symmetrical.
maybe you have it confused with Hydro.

Yes Hydro would take hours to complete if it were rounds. Hydro is not competition worthy.

I am talking about the maps where both teams rush to the middle point and then push the other team off. these should be round based so that the TF2 strategy and gameplay is preserved. A big part of TF2 is adaption. you see what the other team picked for classes and you try to counter it. If you only get to see the team once before they cap you out, you are pretty much stuck with the class you initially chose. you wont have time to change class or strategy for the next round.

Its hard to explain but basically playing rounds and changing up strategies is part of TF2 and if those matches are only going 1 round, you are only playing a small fraction of what TF2 is really about.

willyweed wrote:

Granary is symmetrical.

maybe you have it confused with Hydro.

Nope, I know Granary. Smile

for push maps the only thing i could suggest for those who worry about loosing too fast is if the rules were set up with a 15minute time limit or whatever the same time as the ctf maps...and the team with the most wins by the end of the time limit would be considered the winner...if there is a tie when the time expires it goes into sudden death, and the winner wins, if there is not tie when the time is up, it does not go into sudden death and instead the team with the most wins is the winner...

well usually plays out a while before a winner even though it can be done quick, granary is very fast map, as vector and i and the others did in our tournament win at Prodigy Lan Smile

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Last edited by willyweed on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

SgtHunter wrote:

for push maps the only thing i could suggest for those who worry about loosing too fast is if the rules were set up with a 15minute time limit or whatever the same time as the ctf maps...and the team with the most wins by the end of the time limit would be considered the winner...if there is a tie when the time expires it goes into sudden death, and the winner wins, if there is not tie when the time is up, it does not go into sudden death and instead the team with the most wins is the winner...

thats a really good idea.

at least we are guaranteed 15min of playtime... lol.
id hate to drive the 9 hours down PDX only to last 10 seconds on Granary. I want a tourney that im going to remember and at least get some decent playtime.

sometimes a team will get lucky, or maybe a lucky critical rocket hits the center CP and suddenly 1 team is at a huge advantage due to luck. now the other team has no chance to recover or play another round and they lose because of luck. to me that sucks and id hate for that situation to arise in the tourney. 1 team winning because they happen to get a lucky start.

I think that the PDXLAN staff and LFT clan can agree (except genuflect) that Dustbowl is not balanced in 5V5.

As for Granary... that map is 100 percent symetrical... The middle is practically a color changing mirror lol.

_________________
[LFT]Dexaroni

"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with a seat missing, but it hurts."

dexaroni wrote:

I think that the PDXLAN staff and LFT clan can agree (except genuflect) that Dustbowl is not balanced in 5V5.

As for Granary... that map is 100 percent symetrical... The middle is practically a color changing mirror lol.

Whether or not the map was balanced wasn't my main gripe. My gripe had more to do with the fact that if WE lost, to begin with, and wanted a "rematch", I seriously doubt one would have been granted.

But after Vector and his cronies roughed me up in some dark and dank back alley last night, I've vowed to keep my lips sealed and not be the "voice of opposition" anymore.

But yeah - I think that ALL of the default/stock maps are balanced, but who am I? I'm just some lowly attendee. Midget and company are ultimately the ones who decide what gets played and what doesn't.

If I can find my 5v5 pub demo of Hydro, I'll be much obliged to YouTube it to PROVE that, yes, you CAN easily defend a "non-symmetrical" map if you know how to play it.

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Last.FM

the problem with the non-symmetrical maps is that to make it truly fair each team would have to play each side of it multiple times and as much fun as that would be the time it would take is just too much. that is unless of course you'd rather have a single elim tournament instead:D

Sgt's idea so far is the best i've heard for handling the push maps. set a 30min time limit with unlimited points and most wins takes that bracket. I'd highly suggest finding other teams and practicing some symmetrical cp maps in 5v5 and work out your strats because it would suck to lose to a scout rush but just 1 pyro can really bring the hurt to a group of scouts trying to cap center flag. We'll also be playing around with spawn times over the next week to try and come up with an acceptable amount of time.

ps
some great discussion so far. lets keep it up through out the lead up to the lan so we can make this an epic tournament.

_________________
Doc: That's one worried frog.
Count: That's ONE! One worried frog!
Robin: Well, he's not the only one.
Count: That's TWO! Two worried frogs! Ha ha ha ha!

DigitalMidget wrote:

the problem with the non-symmetrical maps is that to make it truly fair each team would have to play each side of it multiple times and as much fun as that would be the time it would take is just too much. that is unless of course you'd rather have a single elim tournament instead:D

Sgt's idea so far is the best i've heard for handling the push maps. set a 30min time limit with unlimited points and most wins takes that bracket. I'd highly suggest finding other teams and practicing some symmetrical cp maps in 5v5 and work out your strats because it would suck to lose to a scout rush but just 1 pyro can really bring the hurt to a group of scouts trying to cap center flag. We'll also be playing around with spawn times over the next week to try and come up with an acceptable amount of time.

ps
some great discussion so far. lets keep it up through out the lead up to the lan so we can make this an epic tournament.

Ah, I see where you're coming from.

As far as a pyro bringing the hurt to me if I was a scout... that remains to be seen. I can usually mow a pyro down without breaking a sweat with the scout if I'm "in the zone", so to speak. Smile

The pyro has the disadvantage when it comes to range. If he wants to compensate by using his shottie, then he's going to be fighting an uphill battle. Wink

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Last.FM

non symmetrical maps can be balanced, but less on 5 v 5 with a respawn time. and like said the only true fair thing is for teams to play as blue and red on those maps

to show my point, at prodigy, every red team lost on dust, now its not cause every red team was the worse, but they all lost...

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-nu fi boboc-

SgtHunter wrote:

non symmetrical maps can be balanced, but less on 5 v 5 with a respawn time. and like said the only true fair thing is for teams to play as blue and red on those maps

to show my point, at prodigy, every red team lost on dust, now its not cause every red team was the worse, but they all lost...

Yes, that map was quickly ditched Confused

It's worth noting that the spawn advantage on Grainery has been fixed now. I knew I didn't like that map for a reason.

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I'll be honest, we're throwing science at the wall here to see what sticks. No idea what it'll do.

I think the compromise for push symmetrical style maps is decent, i.e. map time limit of 30 minutes or more, and the team with the most wins at the end is the winner. That makes sense, especially since rounds can go quickly on push symmetrical maps. I still think "first team to 4 round wins is the winner" is a sufficient rule set for this style of map, but a large timelimit should work too.

For CTF, there shouldn't be sudden death if one team has more caps than the other but neither team reached 3 caps. Each cap should be worth something, and the team with more caps at the end of the timelimit should win. There should be no need for an arbitrary must-have-3-caps-to-win setting. (I know that's the default setting for 2fort, and I dunno why because you can cap twice, shut down the enemy, and still get a stalemate loss wtf?)

I'm disappointed to see dustbowl and dustbowl-style maps be eliminated. Yes the maps are unbalanced in the sense that attackers always win; it's just a matter of time until they win. And that's exactly why those style of maps are awesome when you play stopwatch mode. The team that attacks the fastest (i.e. defends the longest) wins. Simple as that. No backwards rules. No arbitrary settings. Simple stopwatch, and each team gets one crack at it. Our best-out-of-three tries, if you fancy that.

Anyways GL to all, and I am excited to see the custom maps, hopefully sooner rather than later.