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CyberCrist
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teh0mega wrote:
... sure the game crashes for my roommate a LOT...


Never had the game crash on me, not once in 177 hours of playtime.
Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:02 am
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WoW for sure must have some nice botting tools to run around randomly on test servers and find and fix all the places to get stuck. I've only been stuck once in 2.5 years and even that was a PvP case where a silly horde boomkin knocked me back into a pile of crates on purpose and immediately /laughed at me, like he knew what was going to happen. Every other MMO I've played I can usually manage to get stuck somewhere on a weekly basis at least.

Which is not to say that WoW doesn't have glitches, just that they are quick to fix them. In the first week or so of Firelands there was a particular rock that if you ran over it on your mount it was insta-death. Good times, but patched to be fixed very quickly.
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:10 am
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Yeah I have been stuck quite a bit in SWTOR, but thankfully the /stuck feature relocates you nearby.

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Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:13 pm
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JagGator wrote:
WoW for sure must have some nice botting tools to run around randomly on test servers and find and fix all the places to get stuck. I've only been stuck once in 2.5 years and even that was a PvP case where a silly horde boomkin knocked me back into a pile of crates on purpose and immediately /laughed at me, like he knew what was going to happen. Every other MMO I've played I can usually manage to get stuck somewhere on a weekly basis at least.

Which is not to say that WoW doesn't have glitches, just that they are quick to fix them. In the first week or so of Firelands there was a particular rock that if you ran over it on your mount it was insta-death. Good times, but patched to be fixed very quickly.


I suspect WOW just has a different physics engine altogether, and this effects the planes and vectors that the world uses. The only times i've ever gotten stuck in WoW was when I was trying to get around the invisible walls that used to surround Mt. Hyjal.

SWTOR has a lot of very odd angles and physics. I've gotten stuck MID AIR in a room, just from jumping and I couldn't move for THREE DAYS. I've also been able to "climb" hills by jumping / moving in ways that shouldn't have worked.

SWTOR needs a "remove invisible walls" mod like Fallout 3/NV had.
Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:26 am
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I remember in vanilla wow jumping up the walls of orgrimmar and then finding the drop down spot where you could run about freely under the city....it was as though many souls cried out in horror, and were suddenly silenced.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:41 am
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One of the Zul'* instances had a trick that you could wall walk around like 2/3rds of the mobs if you tried.
Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:46 am
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JagGator wrote:
WoW for sure must have some nice botting tools to run around randomly on test servers and find and fix all the places to get stuck. I've only been stuck once in 2.5 years and even that was a PvP case where a silly horde boomkin knocked me back into a pile of crates on purpose and immediately /laughed at me, like he knew what was going to happen. Every other MMO I've played I can usually manage to get stuck somewhere on a weekly basis at least.

Which is not to say that WoW doesn't have glitches, just that they are quick to fix them. In the first week or so of Firelands there was a particular rock that if you ran over it on your mount it was insta-death. Good times, but patched to be fixed very quickly.


I remember reading somewhere that WoW has some sort of monitor in their system that detects if your character is in a falling state (which is usually why you can't jump out) and if the XYZ coords are updating indicating that you're actually falling. If something doesn't line up right it will allow you to jump or run... that's actually how some people get into those crazy spots that eventually get fixed as exploits (like that old one in warsong gulch).

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:13 am
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Anime-Wh0re wrote:

This is where I have a problem with the current gaming culture, you spent $60 on this game and you admit that it isn't going to keep your attention and you think it was worth the $60?...


Your post is full of things that make it sound like you hardly played the game and for whatever reasons don't like the type of game it is, so you got angry and decided to cry to Bioware for a refund(which they would be perfectly in the right to deny by the way).

I really like this MMO and while I don't have anything against you, I feel a need to make a counter-arguement against most the things you have said for anyone else reading this, trying to decide if they should buy the game.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:
... But I have no problem if other people enjoyed it, I'm not even going to say it was a bad game because I'm sure it was fun for those that liked that slow crawl of a story driven mess.


I'm pretty sure you have played other MMOs before, specifically wow, which doesn't even have a real storyline, so maybe that's why your meter of what is a "slow crawl" is like this.
Let me say that I MUCH prefer a game with a real storyline, that keeps me invested in what's actually going on, than a bunch of pop-up text boxes like WoW and every other MMO.
Also you can skip conversations if you want, and I still fail to see how or in what way the the game is "slow", its an RPG, it's an MMO, it's not an FPS.


Anime-Wh0re wrote:

Back on topic though, I can't say I really enjoyed anything of SWTOR:
-The combat was clunky.


Combat isn't anything new for an MMO but its hardly clunky.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The map was atrocious.


NOW I think you are just making stuff up to try and sound like there's alot of things wrong with the game. The map is VERY nice and functional compared to every other MMO or any game in general.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The inability to use my own CRAFTING professions with my character when my companions were on missions.


Your character doesn't craft, get over it. Your character is too important of a person to waste crafting, that's why you have minions. At max level you have at least 6 companions, and can only send 5 on missions at a time. At lower levels you just have to plan ahead.
You are the first person i've seen to complain about the crafting system in this game being anything but too easy.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-I got stuck 5+ times in 35 hrs of playing this game...I've played WoW for 5000+ hrs and I have gotten stuck 3 times that I can remember. By stuck I'm referring to not being able to do anything, not falling down a hole because you were a dumb-ass.


While this is definately an issue they are working on, its one many MMOs have when they first come out, including WoW. That's why there is a /stuck command.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The game performance was unstable at best, random slowdowns for no reason, and dear god the texture crawl due to lack of TRUE draw distance...I've never seen grass grow so fast.


This is one point I don't totally disagree with. The Hero engine is not a great engine in my experience, I can't fathom why they used it for the game. However it's not a horrible engine either, and again they will improve these issues over time.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The lack of a unified coding architecture that allows for addons, I like customizability...this game didn't offer it.


Moddable UI is in the works.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The space missions while briefly fun ended up repetitive and boring just like any daily style quest did.


The space missions were added at last minute as sort of a bonus/something spacey to do in the interem. They said they will be working on a full-fledged space expansion eventually.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-I personally loved how people kept telling me how this glorious and huge universe was ready to be explored...Hold on while I get tunneled off from exploring a zone because it has a giant RED "forcefield" door in front of it. I've never felt so limited in an MMO before and I have played my fair share of them.


All the "instanced" off zones are there for a reason. There is plenty of area to explore in the game and apparently you haven't played many MMOs because this one is much more fleshed out and the enviroments are way more interesting and diverse than many. Remember, how many square miles is not as important as whats in them.
Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:12 pm
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Jaden wrote:
Anime-Wh0re wrote:

This is where I have a problem with the current gaming culture, you spent $60 on this game and you admit that it isn't going to keep your attention and you think it was worth the $60?...


Your post is full of things that make it sound like you hardly played the game and for whatever reasons don't like the type of game it is, so you got angry and decided to cry to Bioware for a refund(which they would be perfectly in the right to deny by the way).

Not sure why you quoted that line to start the counter points, but i suppose its as good as any place. I don't see how me not enjoying a game feeling "cheated" out of my money and getting a refund makes me angry or a crybaby. It's a good thing it wasn't Bioware that held the keys to the virtual wallet good on EA for appeasing me.

I really like this MMO and while I don't have anything against you, I feel a need to make a counter-arguement against most the things you have said for anyone else reading this, trying to decide if they should buy the game.

Seems fair, I said what I didn't like, now we get to hear from a diehard fan what is good about the game.


Anime-Wh0re wrote:
... But I have no problem if other people enjoyed it, I'm not even going to say it was a bad game because I'm sure it was fun for those that liked that slow crawl of a story driven mess.


I'm pretty sure you have played other MMOs before, specifically wow, which doesn't even have a real storyline, so maybe that's why your meter of what is a "slow crawl" is like this.
Let me say that I MUCH prefer a game with a real storyline, that keeps me invested in what's actually going on, than a bunch of pop-up text boxes like WoW and every other MMO.
Also you can skip conversations if you want, and I still fail to see how or in what way the the game is "slow", its an RPG, it's an MMO, it's not an FPS.

My response here was relevant to Baldur's Gate 2, not SWTOR. I didn't find much of a story at all in this game aside from the class quests which felt very "herp derp" to me. WoW's story is just an expansion of Warcraft 3, so I can see where your problems with it are. I will give you this one if you are just talking about the class quests, otherwise I call BS because I tried to listen to the whiny quests that were "go talk to this guy" or "go collect the chemicals 1/8", nothing new offered. BTW at least I know what I'm getting myself into before clicking accept quest in wow...my space bar has never had more pounding to skip smurf than it did playing SWTOR.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

Back on topic though, I can't say I really enjoyed anything of SWTOR:
-The combat was clunky.


Combat isn't anything new for an MMO but its hardly clunky.

I disagree, WoW's combat is 100X more fluid feeling that SWTOR could be because of the swing timer, or lack there of in SWTOR. I don't even know if it has a queueing system because it certainly didn't feel like it had a very good one if at all.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The map was atrocious.


NOW I think you are just making stuff up to try and sound like there's alot of things wrong with the game. The map is VERY nice and functional compared to every other MMO or any game in general.

REALLY?...
If I'm in stormwind in wow I can see ironforge on the map and anywhere else for that matter that I have previously explored. Someone argued against me saying that different planets are too far away to see a map of...Outland is technically a whole other dimension, so I would have to call lazy/BS on this one. Or how about the inability of leaving the map opaque while moving, if you are standing on certain hillsides NOT MOVING the map still goes transparent just to smurf with you.


Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The inability to use my own CRAFTING professions with my character when my companions were on missions.


Your character doesn't craft, get over it. Your character is too important of a person to waste crafting, that's why you have minions. At max level you have at least 6 companions, and can only send 5 on missions at a time. At lower levels you just have to plan ahead.
You are the first person i've seen to complain about the crafting system in this game being anything but too easy.

Easy yes, tedious...to an extent as well. It takes 2mins per potion give or take 30s...I mean wtf, I know you get more companions, I had 3 when I quit, still didn't make me any less annoyed that I could only queue up 5 items per companion. My character is MY CHARACTER, its not me, if I feel like telling my virtual slave/avatar in front of me to churn out some damn potions it better well start churning out some damn potions.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-I got stuck 5+ times in 35 hrs of playing this game...I've played WoW for 5000+ hrs and I have gotten stuck 3 times that I can remember. By stuck I'm referring to not being able to do anything, not falling down a hole because you were a dumb-ass.


While this is definately an issue they are working on, its one many MMOs have when they first come out, including WoW. That's why there is a /stuck command.

Oh, I'm sorry...is this 2004? I thought not, don't use this excuse, its a sad attempt. WoW has had its share of problems for sure, but I'm comparing WoW of today, not WoW of yesteryears. SWTOR is a buggy mess right now I will attribute some of that to EA most likely rushing the game to store shelves, but for christ's sake they have countless people that would throw themselves at the chance to test stuff, why not take advantage of it.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The game performance was unstable at best, random slowdowns for no reason, and dear god the texture crawl due to lack of TRUE draw distance...I've never seen grass grow so fast.


This is one point I don't totally disagree with. The Hero engine is not a great engine in my experience, I can't fathom why they used it for the game. However it's not a horrible engine either, and again they will improve these issues over time.

Fair enough.


Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The lack of a unified coding architecture that allows for addons, I like customizability...this game didn't offer it.


Moddable UI is in the works.

You sure about that, EVERYTHING I have heard and read points to otherwise, less coding they allow less bugs and exploits that will be found.


Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-The space missions while briefly fun ended up repetitive and boring just like any daily style quest did.


The space missions were added at last minute as sort of a bonus/something spacey to do in the interem. They said they will be working on a full-fledged space expansion eventually.

Fair enough.

Anime-Wh0re wrote:

-I personally loved how people kept telling me how this glorious and huge universe was ready to be explored...Hold on while I get tunneled off from exploring a zone because it has a giant RED "forcefield" door in front of it. I've never felt so limited in an MMO before and I have played my fair share of them.


All the "instanced" off zones are there for a reason. There is plenty of area to explore in the game and apparently you haven't played many MMOs because this one is much more fleshed out and the enviroments are way more interesting and diverse than many. Remember, how many square miles is not as important as whats in them.

I've seen these "fleshed out" zones you are talking about, Nar Shadda or whatever it was the CyberCrist mentioned, sure it looks fantastic on first appraisal...until you realize that most of what you see isn't actually interactive at all. There are flat platforms that you walk around on and thats pretty much it. GIANT BUILDINGS everywhere but none that actually offer any interaction at all Corruscant was the same way.


As far as Hardly playing the game goes. I gave it almost a 40hr work week to impress me, it didn't get anywhere near it and I found myself going back to WoW because I liked the setting more, I liked the gameplay more, and I liked the "FEEL" more.

To the people that might say 40hrs isn't enough to judge an MMO I would say back that while I can get back my money (and did amazingly enough), I can't get back time. If I feel like I have to convince myself that I am having fun chances are that I'm probably not having fun.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:50 pm
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Anime you really disappoint me. Glad your going back to WoW. Enjoy your overdone fantasy settings. And I am glad all the free month'rs will be leaving. Personally I am not sure if you remember vanilla wow, when you got stuck/fall through the world all the time.

But hey! Not all AAA games are for everyone. Personally I hope SWTOR really raises the 'bar' because honestly, it really did.

I have over 10 days play time in the game, and personally, not even remotely bored. WoW it took me over a year to finally reach max level. Was the most boring CRAWL I have ever done and I can't believe I played that crap game for 6 years.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:52 pm
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Tuskan wrote:
Anime you really disappoint me. Glad your going back to WoW. Enjoy your overdone fantasy settings. And I am glad all the free month'rs will be leaving. Personally I am not sure if you remember vanilla wow, when you got stuck/fall through the world all the time.

But hey! Not all AAA games are for everyone. Personally I hope SWTOR really raises the 'bar' because honestly, it really did.

I have over 10 days play time in the game, and personally, not even remotely bored. WoW it took me over a year to finally reach max level. Was the most boring CRAWL I have ever done and I can't believe I played that crap game for 6 years.


See that is the problem though, the argument is null and void. WoW right now is the more stable game, you can't compare vanilla wow because that was 7 years ago, and it has been completely revamped and changed. A person can't pick vanilla wow up right now and experience all those bugs because they are gone. There is a standard that some people expect from games whether they be new or not, and to me SWTOR didn't live up to its end of the bargain.

Furthermore to say it was a crap game that you played for 6 years is absurd. You probably enjoyed most of your time in it otherwise you would have quit playing it earlier, to say otherwise would be a process of both denial and fallacy. At no point did I say SWTOR was a crap game, I said I have this set of problems with it that I can't fathom the reasons they didn't catch/fix before release. And I said there are some things in the game that really piss me off.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:05 pm
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Alright guys...let's not make this personal. The discussion is what you like/dislike about the game. We are not running for MMO office and you are not trying to convince your constituents of the validity of your role.

Also, a person who hates the game is not going to change the mind of a person who loves the game. Let's keep it objective so that those who are "on the fence" can get some good info.
Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:55 am
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Yeah, I'm done throwing crap around anyway. In no way did I intend to make this a personal dispute, I simply provided a subjective reasoning for my dislike, I wish I could have been more objective but it just wasn't possible.

My original post in this was for the purpose of letting those know that might share my opinion and feeling on the game. If they were unhappy with their purchase and they made their purchase from Origin directly that they had/have a chance to get their money back as long as they are cordial but firm in their customer service request.

Sorry it devolved into what it became which was basically a pissing match between myself and others.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:33 am
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Tuskan wrote:
Was the most boring CRAWL I have ever done and I can't believe I played that crap game for 6 years.



So.... you hated the game and played it for 6 years anyways? Rolling Eyes

Also, regarding the /stuck command that Jaden mentioned, it's there in case it happens. You should almost never have to use it. In the *very* short time I was in SWTOR on my friend's account I had to use it twice.


You guys can say what you will, but SWTOR isn't going to last long. RIFT was a far more interesting concept and gameplay was much more fluid than that of SWTOR and even it hasn't survived well.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:22 pm
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[LG]Zlog wrote:
Tuskan wrote:
Was the most boring CRAWL I have ever done and I can't believe I played that crap game for 6 years.



So.... you hated the game and played it for 6 years anyways? Rolling Eyes

Also, regarding the /stuck command that Jaden mentioned, it's there in case it happens. You should almost never have to use it. In the *very* short time I was in SWTOR on my friend's account I had to use it twice.

You guys can say what you will, but SWTOR isn't going to last long. RIFT was a far more interesting concept and gameplay was much more fluid than that of SWTOR and even it hasn't survived well.


What do you define as "last long"? Want a friendly side bet? I'll be willing to bet cash (or lunch?) that this game outlives WoW.

Also, I'd be quick to point out, that almost every MMO has had rocky starts. The good ones stick around while the bad ones fade away (remember Tabula Rasa? <-- I loved that game!). Yes, WoW has achieved quite the following, but it was the "New Guy" on the block when it came out. People swore up and down it would never beat Everquest, not in a hundred years. But EQ was already 5 years running and getting a bit long in the tooth. They had EQ2 just on the horizon and managed to beat WoW's release date by a mere 15 days. Both games started off rocky, I should know, I was paying for subscriptions in both games for quite a while. The bugs were rampant, both games being rushed out the door in order to compete with each other.

Comparatively, if you look at WoW launch and you look at SWtOR launch, SWtOR had a much smoother launch. But once again, you are looking at WoW back in 2004, when MMO's were relatively new. So how do you compare the two launches?

Like I said earlier, be objective and help your fellow games. Don't bash the game because you think "WoW iz da uber!" or "SWtOR FTW" or whatever your use of the English language affords you to do.

Does the game have bugs? Yes, but so does every game that is released today.
Are the DEVs responding to these bugs? Yes, check out the DEV tracker! http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php
Will the game run smoother in 6 months? Only time will tell.
Will the game last longer than WoW? Well, it has quite a following already, and it has the advantage that it draws from some very good lore/IP.

For the record, I've gotten stuck once. Yup. So in 198 hours of game time, I got stuck once. Am I going to rage quit the game? No. I also had some problems with patching yesterday. Had to download "Assets 1" 9 times. That's 9 as in NINE. At 11GB per download. Am I going to rage quit? No. I played other games while I waited. I'm not in a race to the finish and the game will be there when I get to it. These two things aside, I haven't had a single CTD, not a single graphics problem, nor a single bit of lag. Nothing, nada, zip.
Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:06 pm
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I'm not much of a betting person, however even after 7 years I still think WoW will outlive SWTOR. Even if WoW falls through, there is no way SWTOR is going to last for 7 years, THAT I would bet on.

Everquest started dieing when Verant was overtaken by Sony Online Entertainment. Verant Interactive, if i remember right, was the dev behind EQ, EQ: RoK, and EQ: SoV. Then..... Sony - and Shadows of Luclin followed by change after change after change - all for the worse. The game got more bland with Planes of Power and.... whatever it was after that with the super-fail dungeon crawl instances.

Meanwhile, Everquest 2 was bad from the start. Not rough, or bumpy, but just flat out bad. Planes of Karana zone pretty much summarizes the whole game - boring, empty, not interesting, repetitive, pointless, and dull. Expansions that came out later on improved the game, but you had to buy them as DLC packs, and even now the combat is really strange and not fluid at all (played a free week that they e-mailed me about a month ago).

I can't say that I gave SWTOR a very big opportunity, but I can say that I really wanted to like the game. A couple friends that I've always MMO'd with are trying it out and I've always enjoyed gaming with them, and I really wanted to get into another MMO with them, but having played MMOs for so many years, I've come to expect certain things, and I've gotten really used to others. SWTOR has two problems: It's not really bringing anything new to the table (I expect something new from a new game) and it's missing the refined feel that a game launched in 2012 (basically) should have IMO. The textures are kinda meh, the animations are kinda meh... it just didn't wow me (bad pun). It's nothing to do with rage-quitting, it just didn't seem interesting. For example, RIFT blew me away right off the bat in the first couple levels. In fact it had a really great plot and story but it sort of started this really interesting story and made you feel important, and then suddenly you were in the mid-level 30-40s and just doing random chores instead of epic story quests. Kinda got bored and busy with life and fell off the horse. I hear it's pretty good now, though.

I'm not criticizing people who like the game, I'm just really critical of what I want to sink hours of my life into. I know how hypocritical that must make me sound since I posted earlier that I went back to WoW, but the primary reason behind that is I only had to spend $14.99 to do that as opposed to $60 for SWTOR. Plus, WoW is refined, and I'm playing a new class through the cataclysm-destroyed zones so I'm getting that "newish" feel.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:48 pm
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[LG]Zlog wrote:
I'm not much of a betting person, however even after 7 years I still think WoW will outlive SWTOR. Even if WoW falls through, there is no way SWTOR is going to last for 7 years, THAT I would bet on.


What's the bet? Lunch at PDXLAN 35? (or whatever the first PDXLAN of the year 2019)?
Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:24 am
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Lol sounds good Smile How about lunch plus whoever loses goes on stage (with V's blessing) and says "Soandso was right and I was wrong" Very Happy

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[LG]Zlog wrote:
Lol sounds good Smile How about lunch plus whoever loses goes on stage (with V's blessing) and says "Soandso was right and I was wrong" Very Happy


You got a bet! Smile
Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:11 am
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[LG]Zlog
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant




Posts: 2052

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Portland, OR.

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So somewhat back on topic, I've got to ask:

"Does Star Wars: The Old Republic meet all of your expectations, and do you see yourself playing this game for months to years?"

Also, what do you wish was in the game that isn't?

I'm still waiting for a new MMO to come out and come close to the way SWG was at it's prime with living and breathing player-made cities and amazingly customization for housing. Housing, many argue, has nothing to do with gameplay and it's completely pointless. But I honestly had such a blast having an almost Sims-like element to the game that allowed me to basically show off to anyone driving by.

So many MMOs (all of them?) are focused on crafting, fighting, and quests without having anything to do when none of that other stuff is going on. Once you're max level, if there isn't a raid going on there's not much to do other than craft or PVP. It'd be nice to have something more interesting that didn't rely on you being on your toes (pvp) or grinding mats (crafting).

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:40 pm
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